[MBT] Massive Battery of Tests Apr 25, 2017, 3:38 PM
zombie33 I will introduce you the MBT  : The massive battery of tests.

This is the second MBT of peasant (you can see results of the first one from 2013 here. Some voluntiers will play a high number of game with predefine decks in order to determine the best decks of the format and the good or bad match up of every decks. Everyone can participate to this MBT.


Phase 1  :
* Debate to define the main decklist of 5 archetypes of the format  :
Faeries, Wellspring, Affinity Atog, MBC Devotion, UB Thopter
* Playtests main deck with the 5 list define previously - every match at least 10 times OTP and OTD (200 games)

Phase 2  :
* Debate to define the main decklist of 5 other archetypes of the format  :
MGA, Burn, MWC, Arcane Tide, Gx Tron
* Playtests main deck with the 10 list define previously (700 games)

Phase 3  :
* Update some decklist or add some new deck to the MBT.
* Think about the best Sideboard for each decklist.


MBT - Google Doc


The google doc contain three sheet :
- Data (playtest)  : This is where every gamer will fill the google doc with results.
- MBT results  : Table of statistics and results
- Specific deck  : More informations related to a specific deck, this is where you can find the decklist used for each deck.
last page
zombie33 May 9, 2017, 11:44 AM - About Elves i suggest Anthem to toufmade instead of imperious and he dislike the idea. So maybe he will share his point of view.

- for MWC is not so simple because becoming the monarch is a very good thing and exile a creature too. Create more 1/1 is good but maybe not in this deck. It's already the weekness of the deck : too many 1/1...
One option is : -1 Palace jailer + 1 Monument +1 Palace Sentinels -1 xxxxx , but i don't like the idea.

- Predator's Strike or Larger than Life ? I always prefer the first one in my infect deck.
zombie33 May 9, 2017, 11:49 AM About Thunderous Wrath, it's a very good card but not in a deck with needle, manamorphose and forgotten land...
We can also try a list with thunderous and without this three cards
B4L4 May 9, 2017, 12:01 PM Elves :
Spidersilk Armor has proven to be amongst our top 2 SB cards for a while (some copies even reached MD in pauper list, given how flexible it was : good vs delver/faerie, against popular sweepers, good combat stats). Having access to such a powerful effect with a maindeckable card (Gaea's Anthem) seems really huge for Elves.

MWC :
It was just a suggestion (I don't play this deck). Maybe i misjudged how divergent a Monument build can be from a regular build. You argument about the 1/1 plethora weakness make sense.

Infect :
Predator's Strike vs Larger than Life feels like Giant Growth vs Groundswell. You can get more raw power but Strike & Growth are safer. It's just a good thing to play some number of extra-evasion in a mono-G build (lack of Blighted Agent). Strike/Larger the Life is the 9th evasion spell (4 Rancor, 4 Blessing).
B4L4 May 9, 2017, 12:03 PM Burn :
Miracle cards : High risk - high reward cards don't fit in burn (imo). You need consistency. I can see Burn loosing games vs very good MUs just because of how clunky Thunderous can be.
GalacticPresident May 9, 2017, 12:11 PM - I agree on Anthem in elves.
- Monument could be very strong in MWC but I agree that the list would probably have to change a little to maximize the value. Getting a 1/1 for W with Skyfisher is strong and the acceleration is also definitely worth it, but wouldn't you want to have access to some mass pump with that effect? But I can see just running 1 for value too, as the 1/1s stack up pretty quickly with Suture Priest. I suggest we test the deck a little more before we enter a suboptimal list to this big meta test.
- I also prefer Predator's Strike to Larger than Life- exactly my thought when I read the initial comment.
- In Burn I don't like Wrath but I agree to run Swiftspear if we go for Needle Drops and Manamorphoses. Without Swiftspear, I prefer no Manamorphose and 1-3 Flame Rifts and other burn instead. An average card in Burn does roughly 1,5 points of damage (without Alchemist). Even if I add an extra point from an Alchemist in play, Manamorphose does 2,5 dmg which is less than Incinerate for example. I even prefer Magma Jet over Manamorphose which is a very good topdeck. This equation changes if you run Swiftspear, where I think Manamorphose is worth it over the Tier2 burn spells. (Although not over the 4th Searing Blaze, which becomes even better if you play more creatures.)
I also dislike Forgotten Cave, Fireblast should be a 4-of.
B4L4 May 9, 2017, 12:52 PM Burn :
Imagine this opening 7 (possible with the current state of suggestions) :
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Mountain
1 Thunderous Wrath
1 Manamorphose
1 Fireblast
1 Forked Bolt
1 Searing Blaze

This seems decent at first sight : 2 lands & 5 spells.
BUT :
Thunderous in opening hand => mehh
Forked Bolt => low dmg
Forgotten Cave => Bad with Fireblast & can be bad with Searing Blaze if we need to T2 landfall into casting Searing Blaze.
Manamorphose => No Thermo / Swiftspear to abuse it yet. It is just a random card in our hand = harder to evaluate the opening hand.

Burn don't need all this nonbo stuff, it just need consistency.
zeroxceet May 9, 2017, 2:26 PM when i started playing peasant, i played burn . i an say just on e thing : forgotten caves are in my toilet room now...
as b4l4 said : fireblast, arrive tapped etc...
knightseb May 10, 2017, 9:59 AM I'll talk only about the decks I know and/or play.

- Burn -
I use to play for a while now 4 shrine of burning rage and 1 skullcrack as uncos. Miracle without any ways to control which card is on the top of the deck is really a bad idea. I didn't test thermo Alchemist but it could replace shrine as artifact hate is everywhere at the moment. I also play 2 Forgotten cave. I never play a burn spell on turn 1, so putting it in play tapped isn't an issue and when I already have 4 lands in play, I cycle it to draw a burn spell. It was never an issue for Fireblast also as I won't play them unless it would kill my opponent or if I'm desperate to stay alive ... I don't like Needle drop, manamorphose, searing blaze and forked bolt in this list. For reference, my current list for burn is
below (I don't own any chain lightning). Most of my spells deals 3 for 2 mana in instant :

//Lands
2 Forgotten Cave
19 Mountain

// Creatures
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Martyr of Ashes => Sweeper

// Spells
4 Shrine of Burning Rage => Might change to Thermo alchemist eventually
1 Skullcrack
4 Burst Lightning => 2 dmg in the first turns, more in the late game
4 Fireblast
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Spear
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Traitorous Blood
SB: 4 Guerrilla Tactics
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Smash to Smithereens

- Elves -
As I play only 12 lands, llanowar/fyndhorn/mystic elves are maxed in my list. I have yet to try elvish vanguard. Gaea's Anthem VS Imperious Perfect should be on the avantage of the first one as Gaea's anthem is harder to remove and we won't tap often Imperious to make a 1/1 elf.

- MGA -
I would play Curse of predation over Gaea's Anthem. But i never test it.

- Arcane Tide -
I never understood why people play ponder as we ar digging for our combo (as in UB thopter). What is the point to shuffle when we put lands at the bottom with peer through depths ? My current list is the following (note that I always play 61 cards in all my decks so don't argue about it). I play 2 dampen to get one fastly so I could start milling soon and without a infinite loop (provided by Petals of insight). I play 2 stream to recycle cards I would have been forced to discard. Note that they coulmd be used to also make an infinite loop.

18 Island
1 Oona's Grace
1 Words of Wisdom
2 Dampen Thought
2 Stream of Consciousness
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
1 Petals of Insight
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Pieces of the Puzzle
4 Preordain
B4L4 May 10, 2017, 10:30 AM @knightseb :

Burn :

I never play a burn spell on turn 1


I don't really understand this statement. Why would you do that ? Because of Shrine ? Burn isn't really a deck that wants to enter the turn 5+ zone (Gray Merchant is in the format). Your build seems to go there.

4 Incinerate, 4 Searing Spear & 4 Shock (let's be honest, Burst Lightning is a Shock 90% of the time). All those cards are pretty underwhelming compared to other options available, such a Chain Lightning (card availability should not be a concern when discussing an optimal list, esp for online play). 3 dmg for 2 mana is NOT a good deal in burn. It's like saying Grizzly Bears is a good deal in constructed.

Shrine of Burning Rage is the worst topdeck ever. It's pretty mana intensive too. Hard to justify 4 uncos slots for this card.

Kiln Fiend is a very powerful card. I am afraid it is not the right shell for it though. You only play 8 creatures, 4 of them being Martyr of Ashes (which can be pretty irrelevant is some MUs), so your Kiln Fiends are going to be removal magnet. In Burn Kiln Fiend lack evasion, haste, etc...
If you take a look at the most played creatures in Burn :
Monastery Swiftspear : Haste is huge & it's a key card when trying to race fast decks.
Keldon Marauders : This card doesn't care about whetever it eats a removal or not. Guaranted dmg.
Alchemist : Dmg without the need for attack step !
Kiln is just a monster on steroids, but it will get chump-blocked or die to removal without dealing any dmg.

Arcane Tide :
Ponder are good for the following reasons :
- Ponder is the best card when you want to make sure you hit your first 3 land drops. It allows us to keep a higher %tage of opening 7. That's very relevant, given the critical mass of cards Arcane Tide need to assemble before going off.
- Why run shuffle effects ? => Brainstorm. I think Arcane Tide is the best Brainstorm deck, and that's because we play many cards that can filter the 2 useless we put back on top.
- Ponder, take the best card, then play Merchant Scroll (another stupid card that shuffles) is a very powerful sequence in Arcane Tide. Ponder into Peer is not bad either.

If you play a list with 2 Stream of Consciousness, I would shove 1 Pieces of the Puzzle & 1 Dampen Thought to make room for 2 Deep Analysis MD. This way you have access to a true alternate kill (The double Stream + DA -targeting your opponent) & kind of a post-board configuration against grindy / discard decks (at the cost of some speed).
knightseb May 10, 2017, 11:08 AM I don't play online, only IRL and my meta is full of creatures ...

My statement was to defend the fact that burn rarely need a untapped land on turn 1. Maybe my vision of burn is the instant one, when i play during the end step of my opponent. For Kiln fiend, you can use burn to kill blockers (so future attackers) and deal damage once the road is free. And it the same for Monastery Swiftspear ... And I used to play Keldon Marauders in place of Martyrs some time ago.
I agree that my choices may be irrelevant (in particular on the uncos chosen). Shrine is a good card dealing more than 6-7 uncolored damage quite often ... I agree to say that is not a good topdeck but if played in the first turns, it can store a lot of damage. His usefulness has dropped since the meta is faster now and Thopter/devotion decks more present.

For Arcane Tide, once I start the big turn, i really don't want to draw the islands i put on the bottom of my deck. It is why I don't play ponder. The only shuffle cards are merchant scroll and ponder. Brainstorm is a draw 3 instant card which is to be used at the end step of the opponent turn before the big turn and followed by Pieces of the puzzle / Peer through depths during the big turn. If playing brainstorm is the only reason to play shuffle effects, I think it is not enough. Hitting 3 lands on the first 3 turns needs drawing cards, not shuffling ones in my opinion. Thanks for the idea of putting 2 Deep Analysis MD (i play them in the sideboard to counter discard).