dumb question about league Dec 7, 2017, 10:26 PM
Strepsil67 question stupid: I saw that there was a ranking of the league over a calendar year. How do you get points? and especially how much depending on the results.
thank you
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Manudesbois Dec 9, 2017, 9:26 AM Of course yes
zombie33 Dec 9, 2017, 12:55 PM The best would be to create separate leagues for elimination tournament and pool tournament.
And i hope create in any case another league for american players.
Strepsil67 Dec 9, 2017, 2:40 PM I did not think my question would elicit so many answers .. and improvement of the point system

GalacticPresident Dec 11, 2017, 5:39 PM A seperate league for Americans is a good idea if they play on Cockatrice at all. Seperate leagues for 8men and pool are a really bad idea imo. The league exists to make it more fun and more competitive to play our Cockatrice tournaments (thanks Manu for the end of the year playoff!). It is however very far from being fair because it rewards players who play more tournaments heavily. Tuning down the amount of points you get for winning an 8men in comparison to pool because it is "easier" is a reasonable thing to do but I don't understand what goal seperate leagues for 8men and pool should accomplish. In my eyes, creating more sub-systems for our already very small community only further splits it up and makes it more insignificant, which I consider a downside.
zombie33 Dec 11, 2017, 6:04 PM My reasons are :

- Players who wants to play every tournament 8 men or pool like today can still do it and have twice the chances to be on top 8.
- Players who can only play pool tournaments because they don't have a lot of time, will gain some motivation with separates leagues because today without playing 8 men you have almost no chances to be on top 8.
- This resolve the problem of 8 men and pool tournament in a same tournament. I don't think a 16 men should count with the same amount of point as a 16 player pool tournament when you look at the amount of games played in both case but they are no solution for this except maybe separate leagues.
GalacticPresident Dec 11, 2017, 9:15 PM

- Players who wants to play every tournament 8 men or pool like today can still do it and have twice the chances to be on top 8.


If by top 8 you mean the end of year masters, we would need to do that differently in any case. Do you want to have 2 masters- one for top 8 pool players and one for top 8 8men players? Sure it's possible and more interesting tournaments are good but I would guess that at least half the players will be the same due to our very small community. As the origin of this topic shows, even regulars don't know all the things that exist already, I would be hesitant to add another without clear benefit.

- Players who can only play pool tournaments because they don't have a lot of time, will gain some motivation with separates leagues because today without playing 8 men you have almost no chances to be on top 8.


I don't think that players who have less time prefer pool tournaments in general. The way our system works, it will always benefit the regulars. The more sub-systems we create, the more players will end up in some kind of top8 but is that the goal?

I don't think a 16 men should count with the same amount of point as a 16 player pool tournament when you look at the amount of games played in both case [...]


You don't? I think it totally should. To score in a 16men, you have to go 3-1 or 4-0. There have been many players who scored pool tournaments with 5-4 or 4-3 records which is not at all harder to achieve. I think it's more about the necessary record than the amount of matches.

New idea:
Having thought more about our point system I find it quite odd to link the number of points to the number of participants. No matter how many players participate in our pool tournaments, the amount of matches is always very similar. The number of players in pool A/B/C is not the same most of the time and it happens quite often that somebody concedes a group stage after the first 1 or 2 matches. This results in players having different amounts of matches anyway (+free wins due to concessions and transferring matches), no matter if 12 or 24 players participate. Now I know that that can't be helped, but wouldn't a static point system be fairer? Like this for example:
Winning 8men: 10 points
Winning 16men: 15 points
Winning Pool with 3 groups: 15 points
Winning Pool with 4 groups: 20 points
(2nd, 3rd,... always 2 points less, whatever) What do you guys think about that?
zombie33 Dec 11, 2017, 11:52 PM A lot of players prefer pool over 8 men because they just dislike elimination tournament. Toufmade and Abyssal are two examples.

You just show that 16 men is harder than pool tournament... How can this be an argument to attribute the same amount of point to both ?
GalacticPresident Dec 12, 2017, 12:32 PM Seriously, thats your whole response?

Players who can only play pool tournaments because they don't have a lot of time, will gain some motivation

=!

A lot of players prefer pool over 8 men because they just dislike elimination tournament.


Toufmade is a really bad example because he is 5th in the league and hasn't played in weeks. Also, if players don't want to play tournaments, they won't be in top 8. Big surprise.

You just show that 16 men is harder than pool tournament... How can this be an argument to attribute the same amount of point to both ?


Are you kidding me? You suggested that the 16men pool tournament should have more points and now you try to turn the argument back on me? Maybe I didn't understand your point but it sure sounded like you think the pool version is worth more point because there are more matches to play. Correct me if you meant it the other way. Why are you nitpicking about this anyway? I thought this discussion was about ameliorating our system, not about winning a stupid argument. The points were just an example, as I wrote right above it. Talking about the amount of points comes after deciding for a static point system, that's why I asked what people think about that different way of distributing points.
sinus Dec 12, 2017, 1:46 PM 1. I agree with Galactic President, there should be only ONE league. There is no point in splitting the community.
2. Personally I prefer 8-Men tournaments when I don't know how much time I have to play in a month. You simply have at least 2-3 weeks to finish 3 games max. That's way easier to accomplish than to play a lot of matchups in a shorter period of time (especially against players that are online mainly throughout the day, but not in the evening).
3. I thought about a rating based on win percentages, which is also bad because it incentivises players to only play Tier-1-Decks.
4. Another idea would be a single elimination tournament each month (no player limit / as many rounds as needed to determine a winner), other tournaments don't count for the league rating.
5. Since we only play for fun it should be mainly about the community and interesting games anyway ;-)
zombie33 Dec 12, 2017, 4:57 PM

Are you kidding me? You suggested that the 16men pool tournament should have more points and now you try to turn the argument back on me?



I suggest both should be counted differently. I never suggest which one should be higher and to be honest, this is also why i suggest to separate elimination tournament and pool tournament because we can't honestly compare them.